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| Rabbi Roly and Caleb Follett in New York City. |
July 31, 2022, Christ Presbyterian Church, Madison WI
After the presidential election in 2016 – you may remember, there was a bit of emotion around that one – a community organizer in New York City asked a friend who was a rabbi – his name is Rabbi Jose Rolando Matalon – Rabbi Roly for short - whether he thought members of his congregation would like to meet a bunch of conservative Christians who worked at a prison in Michigan.
The rabbi laughed. He thought it was the beginning of a bad joke.
Then the community organizer – his name is Simon Greer – talked with the leader of the corrections officers union, Andy Potter, who was a bit intrigued by this idea. He did not treat it as a joke.
A plan began to emerge.
A while later, one of the corrections officers named Caleb Follett got a call from one of his union leaders, who said, “We’re doing a sort of cultural exchange program with some New Yorkers and we’d like you to participate. We’re basically going to host this group of liberal Jewish people from New York City… In our homes…For three days.”
Follett realized he knew no Jews and very few liberals. He said he’d would do it.
This story – you’ll hear more of it as we go along – is told in a book called High Conflict: How We Get Trapped and How We Get Out, by journalist Amanda Ripley. It’s quite a story.
For now, though, think about the high conflict that Paul was writing about to the people of Rome in the middle of the first century of the Common Era.
Over the past few weeks, as we have been exploring that powerful letter from Paul, we have delved into what he had to say about the depths of sin and about the heights of glory. We have learned that what can hold us all together is recognizing that we are all part of one body, ideally loving one another and those around us.
Listen with me now as Mitchell Krawiec-Thayer and Allison Krawiec-Thayer join us from Colorado to share Paul’s words from the translation known as The Message about what happens when that sense of oneness breaks down, about what Paul has to say to quarreling Christians. Apparently this is not a phenomenon limited just to our times.
Romans 14: 1-13
Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don't see things the way you do. And don't jump all over them every time they do or say something you don't agree with - even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department. Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently.
For instance, a person who has been around for a while might well be convinced that he can eat anything on the table, while another, with a different background, might assume all Christians should be vegetarians and eat accordingly.
But since both are guests at Christ's table, wouldn't it be terribly rude if they fell to criticizing what the other ate or didn't eat? God, after all, invited them both to the table.
Do you have any business crossing people off the guest list or interfering with God's welcome? If there are corrections to be made or manners to be learned, God can handle that without your help.
Or, say, one person thinks that some days should be set aside as holy and another thinks that each day is pretty much like any other. There are good reasons either way. So, each person is free to follow the convictions of conscience.
What's important in all this is that if you keep a holy day, keep it for God's sake; if you eat meat, eat it to the glory of God and thank God for prime rib; if you're a vegetarian, eat vegetables to the glory of God and thank God for broccoli.
None of us are permitted to insist on our own way in these matters.
It's God we are answerable to - all the way from life to death and everything in between - not each other.
That's why Jesus lived and died and then lived again: so that he could be our Master across the entire range of life and death, and free us from the petty tyrannies of each other.
So where does that leave you when you criticize a brother? And where does that leave you when you condescend to a sister? I'd say it leaves you looking pretty silly - or worse. Eventually, we're all going to end up kneeling side by side in the place of judgment, facing God. Your critical and condescending ways aren't going to improve your position there one bit.
Read it for yourself in Scripture: "As I live and breathe," God says, "every knee will bow before me; Every tongue will tell the honest truth that I and only I am God."
So tend to your knitting. You've got your hands full just taking care of your own life before God.
Ah, yes, don’t those first century arguments have a familiar ring in 2022? Vegetarian or carnivore? Go to church on Sunday or go to soccer practice? How can you call yourself a follower of Jesus if you eat the wrong food or use your time in the wrong way?
That was not a dispute limited to the early Christians.
When Paul wrote that “some days should be set aside as holy and another thinks that each day is pretty much like any other,” that was a reference to an argument between the early Christians who were Jewish who put a high value on observing the Sabbath and those early Christians who were Gentiles – non-Jews – for whom the Sabbath was no big deal.
Today people still have different views of what it means to observe the Sabbath, which for us translates to Sunday. Do I have to go to church every Sunday? Do I have to not work on Sunday? Can Sunday have value as a family day?
I have heard no shortage of complaints over the years from dedicated church folks about how hard it is to get young people and families to church because – you know, soccer practice, basketball practice, whatever.
So it was fun to read a comment by one of the historic pastors here at Christ Presbyterian.
George Hunt was the pastor here from 1904 until 1934. In his wonderful book about the history of Madison, David Mollenhoff – a long-time part of the Christ Pres community who is with us today – wrote about the pitched battle in the early 1900s between the Yankees - who believed, in his words, “no one should do anything on the Sabbath except go to church, pray, study the Bible, and contemplate God” - and the Germans in Madison, who considered Sunday “a day set aside by God to rest, play, and enjoy one’s family.”
So where did our beloved Pastor Hunt come down on this?
In 1910, he preached a sermon quoted by David in his book. He excoriated the people of Madison for having gone “fun mad” on Sundays. People were going for walks, listening to band concerts, eating ice cream, even playing golf. Children were seen ice-skating as church bells called people to worship. And the bowling alleys and bars were all doing a great business.
If George Hunt had lived in Rome in the first century, Paul might have advised him to take a deep breath. Or, as Paul wrote, “if you keep a holy day, keep it for God's sake.” There is more than one way to do that.
It’s easy for us Christians to get tangled up on some of these matters of practice. But let’s open the lens a little wider. How can Christians who all follow the same Jesus have such different views on the hot-button issues of our day – abortion, guns, marriage, gender, poverty, war?
Don’t worry – I’m not going to try to resolve all of those today. I’m not even going to try to resolve any one of them.
What I hope to do is offer a framework about how we might relate to each other – to the people who follow Jesus within this congregation who surely have a range of views on any given topic and to people across the nation and around the globe who call themselves Christians but may understand that in very different ways from how we think of ourselves as Christians.
Maybe we can even learn a little bit from this experience between Jewish residents of New York City and corrections officers in rural Michigan.
Not only did they not know each other and not trust each other. They were actually a bit afraid of each other. The Michigan folks were wary “of being misunderstood, belittled or mocked,” in Amanda Ripley’s words. The New Yorkers feared they would run into ignorance or hate or maybe even betray their deepest ideals just by going to meet with folks they expected to be bigots.
Isn’t that the way it goes when we think about meeting with people who disagree with the way we see the world?
Remember Caleb – the man who got the call from the corrections union official?
Ripley describes him this way: “He’s a White Christian heterosexual who not only voted for Trump but campaigned for him. Caleb likes the idea of a border wall. He has a small arsenal of weaponry in his Michigan home, including at AR-15.”
Now meet Martha Ackelsberg. She was skeptical of getting involved in this. Ripley said Martha “fits the stereotype that many Republicans have about liberals.” She is Ivy-League educated, taught at Smith College, is a lesbian. But she also has a passion racial justice and reforms of the criminal justice system. She decided meeting corrections officers might be a good idea after all. She wound up staying with two other women from the synagogue at Caleb’s home.
So you might be getting a sense of how big a gulf existed between these two groups of people. Simon Greer, the fellow who organized this, knew he from his experience working with groups in conflict that he needed to establish some ground rules. He had three of them:
“We are going to take seriously the things that everyone holds dear.
“We’re not going to try to convince each other we’re wrong.
“We’re going to be curious.”
And when all else fails, he advised the two groups, just say “Tell me more.”
Those are really helpful if we want to engage with people with whom we disagree. Even Paul – who could be pretty directive in a lot of what he wrote – might have found them useful for those early Christians in Rome.
It was, after all, Paul who wrote: “Eventually, we're all going to end up kneeling side by side in the place of judgment, facing God. Your critical and condescending ways aren't going to improve your position there one bit.”
So let me say Simon’s ground rules again:
“We are going to take seriously the things that everyone holds dear.
“We’re not going to try to convince each other we’re wrong.
“We’re going to be curious.”
And when all else fails, just say “Tell me more.”
There are lots of good stories in Ripley’s book about the experiences these two groups had in Michigan and in New York City.
The corrections officers in Michigan took the New Yorkers to a firing range. Caleb showed a very uncomfortable Martha his gun collection. They visited a cell block in a decommissioned prison. They went to a park that was one of the historic origin places of the Republican Party in the pre-Civil War, anti-slavery days.
And the corrections officers talked about their work in prisons, about why they supported Trump. The New Yorkers talked about ancestors who had died in the Holocaust and how Trump’s targeting of Muslims had disturbing echoes of what their families had experienced. They talked about guns and their differing perceptions of why people had them and what should be done to protect people.
Two months later, they were off to New York City, where they went to Central Park and Chinatown and Little Italy and – to the dismay of the Jewish group who waited outside - the gift shop in Trump Tower. And they tackled another tough and divisive issue – gay rights. No minds were changed, but understandings deepened. As they left, Caleb and Martha embraced.
In her book, Ripley wrote that getting to know people who think or look different starts to reduce the intensity of conflicts. She said that means “building relationships and institutions that generate meaningful relationships in conflict, not in spite of it.”
While it is both fascinating and instructive to look at what happened with the folks from Michigan and New York from a distance, let’s move back into the disputes that divide Christians.
You know the litany. You know which ones strike a chord for you. And you may wonder how can “those people” even call themselves Christians?
One of the fascinating people I have learned a bit from in recent weeks is Kirsten Powers. She is a journalist, a commentator, who over the years has been a regular on Fox News and CNN, who writes for USA Today.
Politically, she is clearly a liberal. But personally, she has been on a very interesting faith journey – raised Episcopalian, becoming an atheist, joining an evangelical Christian church and then becoming a Catholic. She wrote a book that came out last fall called Saving Grace: Speak Your Truth, Stay Centered, and Learn to Coexist with People Who Drive You Nuts.
“Grace gives other people space not to be you,” she told Sojourners’ founder Jim Wallis in a recent podcast. She went on: “I like the Christian paradigm of grace because it is unmerited favor. A lot of times, people will say, ‘That person doesn’t deserve it.’ And that’s the point. That’s why it’s grace.”
I think that’s at the heart of Paul’s message to the people of Rome - and to the people of Madison gathered here this morning.
Yes, Paul could take strong positions against those he thought were distorting the message of Jesus. Just take a look at his letter to the people of Corinth. We can hold strong views as well.
But Paul also wrote to the Galatians about those who live by God’s Spirit and show that as they exhibit the fruit of the spirit – love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.
One of my mentors taught me a phrase that I have found very useful guidepost along the way: “This is what I believe…but I could be wrong.”
Let those be our watchwords as we engage with those who disagree with us. Let us learn from the experiences of prison guards in Michigan and Jewish folks in New York that we can learn to treat each other well even when we disagree.
Or as Paul wrote: “Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don't see things the way you do. And don't jump all over them every time they do or say something you don't agree with.”
Amen.
